CORRECTION: Summerfest myths and perspective
UPDATE: I STAND CORRECTED
Maggie from the Summerfest was actually nuts enough to think this event could be moved without repercussions. I apologize as I just didnt’ think anyone could seriously consider moving this government funded signature event from WIndsor.
Summerfest received Celebrate Ontario Funding to be able to host this event, you’d think they’d be responsive to the community as would the WFCU center.
I would hope these two groups understand the potential negative of how the community would react to such a move.
Is it saddening to see summerfest move for one year, sure. As I wrote on another post, and thought deserved its own line
Jason, of course its unfortunate that the festival must move for ONE year.
However some perspective is needed
Most of the outrage comes from this fueling conspiracy theory that the WFCU center will steel this for good. That is incorrect because:
The new festival stage is a game changer. This venue takes us from playing T-BALL to the Major leagues. When it is complete any festival featuring music will want to be there as well, I’m sure as luring new events.
We’re getting a professional stage and we’re preventing the dumping of raw sewage into our waterways for the first time and all we can focus on is the temporary relocation of a couple of festival/events for one year?
Much ado about nothing.
Could it have been moved to riverside drive. NOPE. I’m assuming the seniors in the apartment buildings would have fought against it as if it was the onset of bubonic plague
The whole reason festival plaza was built was because residents on Riverside Drive wanted the noise away from them. Sorry but when it comes to downtown, I try to support our residents every chance I get
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yup, methinks it’s temporary pain for generational gain.
and focus on theTarget, the fireworks will still be on the river
Mark:
If the Windsor Parade Corp. finds the new site to be financial beneficial then they will not return. Their event is not related to a performance stage but to the Carnival Midway and the bottom line. That much is evident as they have moved the Christmas and Canada Day Parades out of the core based on financial considerations.
Bigger Issue#1: How did the Windsor Parade Corp. become the substitute agency for the International Freedom Festival? IMHO- it is time to take this event back and return it to its previous glory days (pre-scandal). This role can easily be fulfilled by the DWBIA and the new WindsorEssexTourism Bureau.
Bigger Issue #2: Did the Windsor Parade Corp. receive Celebrate Ontario funding for a planned Red Bull Event at the Windsor Armouries that will directly compete with downtown businesses? The DWBIA was not successful in its Celebrate Ontario grant app for 4 proposed events in the core yet our government sees the wisdom in funding an event that will take business away from our tax-paying merchants…
just askin’….
Chris, isn’t the Tourism Bureau moving out of the downtown to the airport with the Development Commission? Have you heard confirmation of this nasty rumour?
I heard that rumour as well
We are working hard to ensure this does not happen.
I received answers to both questions in a meeting this week:
Bigger Issue#1: How did the Windsor Parade Corp. become the substitute agency for the International Freedom Festival? IMHO- it is time to take this event back and return it to its previous glory days (pre-scandal). This role can easily be fulfilled by the DWBIA and the new WindsorEssexTourism Bureau.
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There is a lot of interest in building the Summerfest/FreedomFest back to its glory days. Much work and money will be needed but this is achievable. The public outcry regarding the Carrousel and Midway being relocated is largely tied to our community’s sense of heritage and the importance of events such as the Freedom Festival to our collective consciousness and sense of place and self (IMHO).
Bigger Issue #2: Did the Windsor Parade Corp. receive Celebrate Ontario funding for a planned Red Bull Event at the Windsor Armouries that will directly compete with downtown businesses? The DWBIA was not successful in its Celebrate Ontario grant app for 4 proposed events in the core yet our government sees the wisdom in funding an event that will take business away from our tax-paying merchants…
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The Parade Corp received funding for a new event called Summerfest Uptown (June 24-27) that is not related to Red Bull. As the DWBIA does not have any events planned for that weekend we feel this will be an enhancement to our downtown that should draw people into the core on that weekend. My comments regarding funding will be brought forward to the appropriate parties (ie- Ministers Duncan and Pupatello).
Did anybody consider the Western Anchor as a temporary location? Even if it spread across the downtown on a West/East plain towards the Armories. I think the downtown was sold short and I concur with Chris. If there is economic viability it might very well stay in the east end.
The western anchor would have the same problems as any other location adjacent to residential.
Don’t say good bye to the Western Anchor site quite yet.
Electricity. There is none at Super Anchor of the kind the midway needs.
The carnival and midway use electricity produced by diesel generators, in semi-trailers owned and maintained by the carnival co.
They set up in the Tecumseh Mall parking lot every spring around this time.
Site services is not an issue. CCW lands w/ the cross-streets blocked off would be pretty reasonable. Perhaps even using some of the space next to the Art Gallery - with Mr. Farhi’s permission
not true. while some generators are used, a lot of power is used from Parks & Rec. “power carts”. 100amp, 3 phase. They use a few of these…
Psst, I’ll let you in on a little secret: Mr. Farhi doesn’t own the land west of the AGW. He “owns” the right of first refusal to “buy” those lands.
there is plenty of power in the city “transient power” trucks…don’t guess, just ask parks and rec for a serious answer on this.
Chris Edwards raises some issues that need to be addressed. The mayor needs to step in to ensure this move is only temporary.
I’ll wait and give him the benefit of the doubt. I’d hate to see a downtown boycott of the WFCU for stealing our events. No one will profit from that
Great points Chris. Totally agree with you. The Windsor Parade Corp. is in it for the bucks along with their partners. If more people turn out to a festival located in East Windsor/Tecumseh they will keep it there from now on. Alot of parents perceive downtown to be too dangerous for kids at night and will be attending the festival for the first time in years. These same perceptions convinced many to believe moving this city’s Crowned Jewel (the arena) from the core was alright. I could see Tecumseh taking the Parade for a while after this year. It could easily join the Corn Fest in Lesperance Park. That town would waive tons of permit fees and have alot less red tape. Have you ever talked to the owner of the Windsor Parade Corporation, Mr. Grimaldi? See what he has to say about how he has been treated by the people at the city. Don’t be so sure this is just a conspiracy. He is not happy, at all.
I’m still calling BS on this stupid idea. And I am shocked the mayor has shrugged his shoulders over this.
Why can’t Riverside Dr be closed and have it there? It used to be in past when it was the Freedom Fest (no thanks to greedy The Guess Who).
What changes now? Personally I love street closures when there ar festivities it gives it an interesting vibe. Whereas the waterfront asphalt park is sterile and removed from downtown.
I’m hoping the negative backlash changes their mind (which is what I have been hearing might happen) as it should!
Mark and M.O.M. the CCW lands and other sites have no impact on residential. The reason is can’t be at the CCW lands is there is no electrical hook ups whatsoever. Though I have seen electrical lines where the brick planters used to be on Chatham St W.
Chris E is correct. Why is the parade corp. removing these parades to places other than downtown. THAT IS THE PLACE WHERE THEY SHOULD BE! Only in Windsor can we screw that up! Yes, for the love of money and ego but screw everything in between. When will passion trump politics and money???
CCW lands have no utilities
Big discussion going on right now with Many downtown Business owners wanting to take over the midway on Ouellette. If summerfest gives up a downtown location, then they forfeit that location FOREVER
I’m glad to hear that the downtown business are gathering steam with regards to this move. And rightly so. The move to the east end could very well become permanent despite attempts being made to assure us otherwise. Summerfest could move westward from the festival plaza without great effort. The losing venture that is the WFCU Centre is the real impetus for the eastward trek.
The ball must be kept in play by the downtown unless it be perceived that agreement stems from silence. You don’t need another jewell to slip away to the Farhi lands in the east like the arena. And while I think a competing event held in the downtown would allow Windsorites to vote for where they feel is the proper location for this festival, I think it may be a little late in the game to arrange something for this year.
Mark, what is the midway on Ouellette? I too love the events held in the streets. The more the merrier in my opinion. If people don’t like loud noise before midnight, they probably should think twice before moving to any downtown. I think the freedom fest has kind of lost it’s allure in the last couple years, to be honest.
BTW jason. My business gets quite the spinoff on Casino Arena event nights and during some conventions.
Fantasy land would have dictated the premise that the arena would have remained 5,000 ft2 and the convention center 100,000
instead of the 1,500 ft2 and 25,000 ft2 that was threatened by the AGCO if we built the arena downtown.
Would you have so easily liked to see those projects lost for a downtown Arena?
I’ll never know why people have such a mental block when it comes to a reality of the consequences of a downtown arena location
Jason, I too used to think that residents noise concerns don’t matter. Then I attended Responsible Hospitality conferences in several cities meeting people from all over North America.
Residents matter. Many cities have two settings on their emergency vehicle sirens on two settings
1:52 AM on March 26, 2010
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unfortunately M. Durocher brought on the negative comments by speculating about a move beyond this year making this about more than construction
Kudo’s to WIndsorites for rallying around downtown
Events like these should not be so easily moved to the highest bidder giving no security to the people they affect
No electrical hook-up my rump! The blocks in the Western Anchor all have power as the whole area was commercial/residential when council of the day decided to doze it under. Proof of that pudding is still there in the form of the environmental handling system for the AWG which is located on Chatham street just behind the LCBO. If the meaning is that they can’t find a plug then call on our trusted civil servants from the WUC. Stop making this hard. It’s really quite simple. Really, really simple.
secondly…the city parks and rec own a bunch of portable power trailers.
Gentlemen, I don’t disagree. But in Windsor we all know the simplest of things are the hardest to do. Like I stated why was is so easy to close Riverside Dr off in the past but we can’t now?
If the last resort is CCW lands then let’s do it. I would rather there than yet another festival gone from the core.
By the way the Parade Corp. director should have her head examined. Because if she isn’t having the many parades downtown because of money then what is the point in having them at all.
Windsor, the most dysfunctional, miserable city in Canada bar none. We eat our own here so who cares about competition.
Apparently the parades were moved from the core due to more sponsorship in other locations (such as Walkerville).
Yet, doesn’t the Christmas parade go down Riverside drive in an area where there are no businesses?
“windsor, the most dysfunctional, miserable city in Canada bar none.”
really???
simply say that I disagree.
Thinkin’ Downtown Windsor is in a prime position for a street carnival of its very own. Not sure if it’s fiscally possible at this point in the season, but a small start may turn into something as high-profile as Freedom Fest was in years past.
The power issue is a red herring. I organized an event in Sarnia in 1999 on remote unserviced lands.
We paid $600 to the City of Sarnia (at that time) to have temporary power supplied. It took the City a day to install the necessary equipment.
The CCW lands as well as the parking lot on Caron Ave seem viable - albeit with a caveat - resident approval.
In the summer, we had a complaint at the Farmer’s Market from the adjacent building because of the radio we were playing. The buildings amplify the sound. A sound stage anywhere in CCW or the parking lot would impact the residents east of the location.
Not only is there room at the CCW lands, I would think there is still room down on the riverfront too, parking lots, etc. It seems it would be fairly easy to connect the CCW lands, riverfront lands, and even shut down a block or two of riverside?
The ability of west-end residents to enjoy this tradition in our city is certainly hampered by a far east location. That is a shame. I suppose the guarantee that this will be a one year only situation will come in the form of diminished attendence.
Downtown businesses will certainly suffer another lost summer. Last summer it was the labour dispute and Oullette being torn up. This year it’s the moving of Summerfest.
I sure hope this isn’t a hot summer. Holding this event in a parking lot with zero shade and no breeze coming off the river will make it “Sweatfest!”
Here’s what I view as the real problem
You have festival operators that have no stake in the areas that host their festivals.
You have provincial grant moneys being used by organization to lure these events away from existing area’s whose grant applications were denied.
Years ago the DWBIA was told, ante up for Christmas parade or it leaves downtown for Sandwich. This year board members requested to ask how much it would cost to bring it back. I think the number was $35,000.
This year, Walkerville and Wyandotte Town center received provincial grant funding to purchase the Canada day parade away from Downtown. The DWBIA also applied for grants to save this event but were denied.
All I can say to these other BIA’s is WATCH YOUR BACK, there will always be another grant recipient willing to stick it in when your not watching. Can you guarantee Erie street will not be home to the Canada Day Parade next year maybe retitling it the “Italian Canadian day”
Maggie Durocher has voiced her dislike of Downtownbecause of its lack of funding of her festivals. Unfortunately, we’re tied up with beautification, infrastructure and development grants that the city is unwilling and/or unable to pay for.
Why we let these “guns for hire to the highest bidder determine the future of our community, I don’t know.
Its not just Maggie either. David Grimaldi posted an interesting comment on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?v=feed&story_fbid=103088856398667&gid=101789939861892
don’t be so sure this isn’t all for nothing…there is a local architect who is pissed he didn’t get the amphitheater project and is trying to put the kibash on it…his letters have forced parks and rec to clarify things in front of council…if this gets delayed,construction gets delayed…if that happens then no grant money..no grant money equals no project ….some people are way to arrogant and greedy
Rino, look at the many comments and how many people in charge only care about their bottom lines and tell me differently?
Windsorites love to piss and moan even when handed cheques (Remember how Jeff Watson is “buying” votes with $80 million to Ford, but other politicans are doing their jobs when handing our cheques?).
Look at the parade corp., Grimaldi, other BIA’s…all willing to stab each other to get “something”.
If the city would do the job they were hired to do without having BIA’s spending money where they shouldn’t instead of where they should then this whole mess would not even come to light.
Our priorities are ass-backwards and people think this is normal. That is why it is important to vote! The dysfunctional attitudes, encamped groups need to start addressing these issues as the rot has set in at the lowest levels.
One of the things that I haven’t noticed in any of the discussion is that people, despite what they say about downtown, actually gravitate to downtown when they want an impromptu gathering. When Canada won the Olympic Gold we didn’t head to Tecumseh or the WFCU, people came downtown in droves. When the Torch came to town it was downtown, when we held a vigil for Constable Atkinson it was downtown. Downtown is where people put their hearts on their sleeves in this town. So, Windsor Parade Corp motives aside, when the people want a parade, they come downtown.
Now how do we capitalize (greedy?) on that manifest expression of emotion?
A litany of red herrings at play here…first it was construction downtown, then proximty to residential and finally, availability of electrical services. Bunk! The festival could be staged on Riverside Dr. and Dieppe Park asphalt surfaces with less acoust. impact on residential than its current location and have plentiful elec. infrastructure. It would be equally feasible on the CCW lands, Lord knows, maybe it would spark some activity over there. Either venue would be vastly superior to the WFCU which, it should be noted, also has subtantial adjacent residential.
Eddie’s relative uncharacteristic silence on the matter tells me that this was a political ‘back room’ deal from the beginning.
riverside drive needs to be kept open for all the construction vehicles in transport mode…cars can be rerouted but you wouldnt want dump trucks in the core area
Construction vehicles would be/are travelling along Howard/Alymer/Glengarry to/from Riverside, and along Wyandotte to Walker. There is no construction implication to closing Riverside in the vacinity of Goyeau to Ouellette.
Good points GH.
I did not think of the residential surrounding the WFCU - but, the concerns of residents living in the core or anywhere shouldn’t be diminished.
But yet again, we have a lack of discussion. This decision was clearly made some time ago and yet, it’s made widely known just mere months before the festivities - a “strategy” if you will, far too common.
I found it especially telling of all the supposed “new” events that will be added this year that are justified in moving the venue.
Could those “new” events not be implemented next year?
And I wonder - who will be providing the alcohol service? Does the Global Spectrum contract extend to events in the parking lot? Will it be internal WFCU beverage providers; providing the alcohol? If so, do the pour rights extend to events in the parking lot? The contract between the Spitfires and the City were quite clear in this regard.
Back to the CCW - the noise could be mitigated; but may require a shutting down time. In addition to residents you have hotels facing the lands.
If proper consultation had occurred with all stakeholders - residents and accomodation enterprises - such a drastic change of venue may not have been necessary.
We’ve known since June 1 2009 the riverfront would be ripped up - which does reinforce the perception of this being a “back-room” deal.
Call me crazy, but didn’t Global Spectrum, the management firm that runs the WFCU Centre announce within the past 6 months that revenues from events/productions at the Branch were significantly down from expectations - like in the 8-figures? So, I wonder - is Summerfest going to be managed through Global Spectrum @ the WFCU? How will this impact their sliding scale fees? What was the old arrangement with WPC? Did the City receive rental fees, licensing, etc. Will the City still be getting this money, or will it be going through Global Spectrum, and will Summerfest be added to the WFCU’s list of productions? All of this should be spelled out in the Council Report. Oh wait! There IS no report. Hmmm.
2 last comments: the WFCU Centre has the added attraction of what are euphemistically called ‘open sewage treatment ponds’ only steps away over the Little River Bridge. Yum. Should be an odiferous event.; and last, it’s clear that the Super Anchor is little more than a Super Parking Lot, and that the City has no intention of ever developing this area. It’s been vacant for more than a decade, and it’s a total shame that our Mayor and Council have not taken this community on as a legacy project (a real legacy project, instead of the dreadful legacy of neglect that they’re leaving).
All this griping and very few facts are being forwarded.
If the Midway does better at the WFCU, why wouldn’t it stay there?
The downtown wants it because it makes their bottom line better. The midway should be able to make the financial decision as well.
Red Bull takes a lot of funds and infrastructure from the city and province so they can make millions. Not a theory, fact.
Maggie is being berated because she was told the WFCU was the only place to go because it is the only place with enough asphalt to handle it. The CCW lands are not big enough and no parking.
You can’t ask any business to shut down at any hour due to noise. I seem to recall many a battle about business in the core being asked to shut down because of noise and they fought it.
Did anyone see that the Windsor Air Show got cash as well? I also found out they are trying to get the attendees to the downtown core for the weekend. Watch for some real big things from that show.
Imagine if they had help.
Besides if Maggie asked for help and got turned down why in the world would she push the issue for downtown?
Let’s be fair about the decisions and paths that led them there.
kdduck, I don’t know you but it strikes me as odd that a person with the sort of ‘cavalier-laissez faire’ attitude to basically say: ‘Hey, the almighty $ rules and if Summer Fest works way out in the sprawling hinterlands where our glorious leaders banished our primary arena, so be it!’ would also be hanging around a site with the fundimental principles of Scaledown Windsor.
Don’t these people owe something to the area they’ve served for 42 years?
They get pissed that the downtown doesn’t ante up more money, maybe if we weren’t responsible for infrastructure and development grants we could spend on events but even then.
There are over 35 events/festivals downtown. They alone could eat our entire budget, especially if its $35,000 for one parade. Which ones are worthy and which ones aren’t. We just gave $1800 to the art gallery to keep a kids program. What about the symphony? what about the library? its endless
Tough luck Sandwich, I heard the price to rip the heart out of your events with the santa parade came for $35,000.
How does a community plan. Even without the money sponsorship, Downtown spends resources trying to promote these events. Now with social media investment we’re going to put more time promoting and why should we when any investment may be lost next year?
One final point in this overwrought argument answering the assertion”…WFCU was the only place to go because it is the only place with enough asphalt to handle it”. I would invite all to have a look at the Google Maps and Streetview where the carnival happened to be set up in its current location during Google’s photography last year. Now superimpose that footprint on the Dieppe Park parking surfaces slightly to the west or the CCW lands to the west and south of the AGW. In both cases, there is more than adequate land area. We don’t need 30 acres of asphalt! Talk about “very few facts being forwarded”.
Of course it’s where the money goes. The arguements are all the same.
If it’s such a huge loss to the core, then hire the midway yourselves and run it.
Just a thought.
I really don’t think it’s about being po’d at the downtown core. Look to who makes the decisions about locations.
They get pissed that the downtown doesn’t ante up more money, maybe if we weren’t responsible for infrastructure and development grants we could spend on events but even then.
There are over 35 events/festivals downtown. They alone could eat our entire budget, especially if its $35,000 for one parade. Which ones are worthy and which ones aren’t. We just gave $1800 to the art gallery to keep a kids program. What about the symphony? what about the library? its endless
bluesfest
epicure
fringe fest
mediacity
film fest
the fireman event
summerfest
canada day parade
all the different soup kitchens/chili cookoffs/ taste of downtowns etcetera that are in the armories
you can even get in to the battle of the hor d’oeuvres etc.. events
all the plays, arts events at the capital theater. Artcite
I’m not even getting close to finished.
Mark, does this issue change your opinion on where the optimum location for the new arena was? It’s a slippery slope. Where will people park for this festival? Is Global Spectrum going to be selling food and booze? Where is the money going come from to repair the damaged parking lot after this event? Is the city charging all the same permit fees or did they make some concessions? Alot of questions need answers. Downtown has lots of public pay parking and lots of small businesses who sell food and booze. This whole situation makes me sick.
Depends how you phrase the question.
Would I have wanted all those acres of new parking lots downtown? Nope
Would I have wanted 3 blank walls facing residential streets like Cobo/Joe Louis does in Detroit? Nope.
To build it properly for an urban downtown setting, would have costed tens of millions more, as a taxpayer would I have wanted my taxes to go up for that? Nope
If this was fantasyland and the premise was true that a downtown arena would have costed the same. Designed for an urban setting and required no more from anyone than the WFCU. Required no parking lagoons THen HELL YES. Maybe I should just be a good little boy and join the fantasy choir.
Actually the proper thing to have happened was for levels of Gov’t to have stepped in and razed and replaced the Glengarry Housing that greets people as they travel from the tunnel exit to the Casino and built it there.
I dont’ think that was ever presented as an option
“Actually the proper thing to have happened was for levels of Gov’t to have stepped in and razed and replaced the Glengarry Housing that greets people as they travel from the tunnel exit to the Casino and built it there.”
Yes - displace hundreds of families and rebuild where exactly Mark?
You know as well as I do why that would never have been an “option.”
I make mention of the theory of locating social housing to the CCW and all I hear is outrage. I make mention of locating it in South Windsor - and I hear back No way.
I make mention of locating social housing in Sandwich Towne - no way, we have enough.
The point - it would add years to the process - and nothing would still be done.
While I agree that social housing needs to be dispersed and not concentrated - to do so would have been quite the undertaking.
And frankly, given the tone I’ve heard associated with social housing downtown by a few, smells of elitism.
And your “parking lagoon” theory and “blank walls” - gee, London seems to handle it quite well. And the building is beautiful. Heck, the BIA was willing to put up $100,000 to chase an Engineering building that would not have been a good fit in my opinion, so, if there is a will there is a way.
It was never seriously considered.
Would have it cost more? We don’t know - IT WASN’T tendered.
But that is what design guidelines are for and an active role for the BIA at the time to take a strong stand - but didn’t.
Chris S,
We have talked about Glengarry before and I truly believe that it should have been razed and new units built to be spread around the city.
Ghettofication of low income people does nothing to help them. Which I am sure you agree.
Immerse them in viable areas and they will get out of the poverty cycle.
If I recall there was a report that stated it was going to cost upwards of $20 million to rehab that 1950s project that should never have been built in the first place.
London wouldn’t have had two arena’s competing for the same events withiin a mile of each other.
London had no casino arena. Makes a BIG difference
London had a parking garage that is supported by a lot more event nights at their arena than we would have had
We DO know it would have costed more.
Single pad arena’s cost more to operate.
We DO know that it would have required a parking garage that would not only have costed more but would cost more in operating costs for the 300 empty nights per year
We DO know that walls that are blank are cheaper than a design that would have connectd to the street level making it suitable to be placed in an urban setting.
Comerica costs more than Joe Louis/Cobo its that simple
Strong stand for what. To keep the land empty for another 30 years. There was no proposal to support
My God Mark, did you hear yourself?
“London wouldn’t have had two arena’s competing for the same events withiin a mile of each other.”
We can’t have competition.
I wonder what all those theatres on Broadway do about the guy next door offering the consumer a differnt play to attend. I wonder how there is often a Mac’s Milk, a 7/11, and a no-name variety occupying three of four corners at an intersection. Or gas stations for that matter.
I wonder how Roy Thompson Hall can compete with the Royal Alexandra right across the road, the ACC around the corner, and Roger’s Centre in the other direction?
THE WFCU Centre has no competition where it is right now and it’s still losing money. Just how many perfromances has the WFCU lost to Caesar’s? How many of the acts that have played at WFCU would have opted to play Caesar’s had the two buildings been closer together?
Your comment is ridiculous and does a disservice to the downtown business owners who would very like the spin-off customers that a downtown arena could have provided…except, of course, that it may have been awful to look at. So is your nose but would you cut it off?
LOS, I appreciate your libertine position on competition however, your comparisons suck.
Windsor is not Toronto. Windsor is not N.Y.
Windsor is stuck between London with a larger venue and twice the metro population and Detroit with several venues and an even larger metro population.
If Windsor was more isolated like Saskatoon, two major venues like WFCU and Ceasars might “compete” for acts/shows.
P.S. competition in the true sense of the word is dead. The invisible hand has given us all the finger and wandered off to find something better to do
James, Everything is relative. The point was that competing venues exist everywhere so why would we artificially remove that competition here, if it even exists?
Would an act play WFCU and Caesar’s? Probably not. My understanding is that the acts play Caesar’s in Windsor so that they can later play in Vegas. So what would be the danger of having the two venues downtown?
And I don’t think the matter of a few miles would be enough to prevent competition from occuring. For example, why would a band like Crash Karma would play Chatham on their cross-Canada tour but there are no Windsor dates? It’s not like there’s anyone at WFCU at the moment. They are playing in London, however, while OHL playoffs are in full swing.
Plus, with COMPLEMENTARY venues situated in close proximity it would be the start of a vibrant entertainment district that could draw punters for many reasons.
The Cleary, the Capitol and Ceasars all exist within blocks of each other…
I suspect, perhaps someone could confirm, that particular acts/shows/agents have relationships with certain venue management cos. The management co. is going to put shows where they will make the most money. Since Global Spectrum manages both the WFCU and the JLB it might just be that they are acting in the interests of GS when they book shows, not so much the venue.
One other thing, the casino “comps” tons of tickets to their shows - they make the dough on the games. A theater or arena needs the gate receipts for revenue. That’s not really an even competition.
L.O.S. I hear myself. I also heard the province say that they would have downsized the arena to 1500 seats if Windsor built its arena downtown.
That means no KISS, no Celine Dion, no anyone of any significance
Since you have pretty much stated that you are biased towards hating anything involving the mayor, maybe it is you who should listen to yourself since the minute the mayor reversed himself on a position, you, by your nature would have to reverse yourself to continue to oppose him
PS. Your point about the finger is probably right, though.
BTW, LOS, any councillors you like? 9 of them voted to put the arena east with the biggest proponent being councillor Lewenza Jr.
…but to think the ‘competition’ problem could be solved by placing the new facility behind an abandoned factory in the middle of an east end industrial wasteland just a few km. from downtown?! What am I missing that our glorious mayor and council recognized…other than an opportunity to screw McNamara? Whatever it was, no sign that it’s working yet…eh, Mark?
If the mayor reverses himself on an issue then I have done my job and made him work toward the best interests of the city instead of adhering to his own agenda of self agrandizement. End of discussion.
OK. The province downgrades the casino threatre. More acts will then go to the arena downtown. I don’t see the problem. Possibly you have more confidence in the casino to bring in acts, from which you would receive a trickle down benefit, than Global Spectrum doing its job?
Jason, the Cleary is marginally more profitable than the WFCU and the Capitol is closed through the actions of the city. I wonder if moving the WFCU to the east end is not somehow connected to removing competition to the casino. Not that it is going to help in the long run. The Caesar’s owners are bailing and building a casino in Ohio. Smoking permitted, no border to deal with, and no concern with the high Canadian dollar.
A blank-walled box in the downtown is sounding better all the time.
LOS….. there are many aspects that are being ignored here with respect to the idea of competition. windsor is not london. the arena does not compete with caesars. do you really think caesars is trying to book the globetrotters? they wouldn’t compete for acts. they would compete for limited dollars. limited market. smaller in fact than london and competing with detroit. someone like crash karma does stop in london but not in winsdor because if they were to book a show in this area they would probably try and book in detroit. its a major radio market and has access to all their windsor fans. if they play in detroit there is usually a non competition clause where they can’t play within so many miles from that venue. hence windsor out. there are many issues that most of us simply don’t understand or fully know all the details so it seems so futile to continue and bitch about the arena being out east. why can’t we see it as a blessing. we get an arena that benefits many eastside businesses economically (remember they are still windsor businesses not tecumseh), a large community center with extra pads for community hockey where needed, a larger caesars to attract better and more big name entertainment and finally the best part that nobody seems to touch upon is that the western super anchor site is still available for something great to be developed there. we in essence get a community arena and the potential for a great development downtown.
what exactly??? not sure. canal? urban village? we’ll see.
Rino, You’ve just proved the point I was making. Mark wanted us to believe that the east end location for the arena was better because of less competition for acts.
“London wouldn’t have had two arena’s competing for the same events withiin a mile of each other.”
My point is that locating the arena a few of miles to the east does not eliminate the competitive factor, such as it is. So why lose out on the draw to the downtown?
I don’t think stating an opinion is proof positive
What I think, Rino thinks or you think is competition is completely irrelevant
It was what the Province thought and what they DICTATED to us in order to get the casino arena and convention center of that size
It did have more to do than just location, it was the fact that the Windsor Arena did not get outfitted with a premier sound system in its initial construction.
Plus we forget that the $10-15 million of the funds used to build the arena came from a fund dedicated to replacing east side ice pads. Had we not built it east, the Arena would have cost that much more to taxpayers without anything else taken into consideration.
It gets tiring getting shot at for being the messenger to people who simply refuse to want to face facts. “THe Truth, you can’t handle the Truth”
Hogwash. We didn’t “save” any money with the arena. The budget was a moving target from day one. The $10 to $15 million didn’t go to build the arena. It went to build three ice pads, a community centre and seniors centre.
Yeah but that money was available for additional pads in the east. If we tried to put a 2nd pad on a downtown arena we wouldn’t have had access to that cash.
The multiple pads of the east end arena is supposed to greatly reduce annual operating fees of the thing. A downtown location with no extra pads would have cost considerably more to operate every year.
Any councilor who voted for the arena to move east was wrong. But in their defense, did they have the full disclosure of facts to make that decision? This mayor has been known to hold things back from council while other items have become known too late after a decision has already been made. What’s your point anyway, Mark? Why single out Lewenza? It was the mayor’s decision to move the arena to lands owned by his friend in the first place.
LOS, the AGCO would not build the huge convention centre either if the arena was built downtown. That was the deciding factor in taking it out of the core.
As it stands (why we are arguing this is moot because the damn thing has been built) they don’t have enough shows to begin with. So the for most of the time the arena would be empty.
This ship has sailed. Time to move on. Downtown will rise with or without the arena. It will but harder. But what good are we doing lamenting this?
Yep, the ’ship has sailed’, sadly, a done deal but the relative wisdom and foresight of the people who made the decision are up for re-election making this a very relevant discussion.
Relevant… yes? But pining for what we lost forever won’t change anything. Fighting to keep what we have (like Summerfest) and trying to get new attractions and ways to make downtown better will save the day. Crying about where WFCU Centre was built years past deadline isn’t helping anything except pointing out the obvious over and over. And perhaps even allowing some to use it as an excuse for why downtown will “never rise again”. Or “if only the arena was built downtown, everything would be OK.” Downtown will rise again with or without the arena. It has to.
Why?
Because
Ship returned to port:
http://www.windsorstar.com/Deal+made+keep+Summer+Fest+Windsor+riverfront/2748844/story.html
I think GHGHGH said it best…
“Let’s call a spade a spade…the mayor knuckled under to a popular protest. Congratulations to all you “largely anonymous and harsh critics” out there and keep up this “type of behavior”!”
I do commend the mayor for having the guts to reverse his decision to move the festival. Unfortunately (or fortunately) it took community to come together to let the mayor know he was wrong. We can make a difference. Does that answer your question Mark?
Now…on to daycare.
Here’s one you’ll appreciate L.O.S.
If you really want to call it, I’d say the Mayor came off like the teflon don for only having his name attached to the event coming back downtown.
As if Parks and Rec would make a decision to move to the WFCU without his full knowledge and implicit approval.
WE all know the Windsor Star wouldn’t ask his view on the original move but why didn’t the A channel, am800 or CBC. All media gave him a pass
I’m happy he recognized like any shrewd politician where the P.R. stood on this issue and took advantage of it.
But good on ya LOS, statements like that give your criticism far more weight.
On to daycare… I’m quitting while I’m ahead today
The media gave him a pass, but read the comments at the Star. The people aren’t buying any of it.
Rino, as a candidate on record, what do you believe to be the best option for the CCW?
“what exactly??? not sure. canal? urban village? we’ll see.”
I’ll ask the question that was asked tonight - what is your stance on the canal? Or the urban village for that matter?
Dave that is a misdirection of the topic.
You can’t simply “raze” a neighbourhood and build wherever you want. It is a long process. You have to build first so people have some place to move to. And in order to build - there is a process.
The direction of the topic was razing Glengarry and building the arena there.
That would have added YEARS to the process.
Mark, you make me chuckle
And I say that respectfully. That wasn’t my only question.
Chris, I am here solely to amuse!
It is not a misdirection of the topic. The conversation moved to the Glengarry projects and I followed suit (like I always do). The topic changed.
You are correct that it would have added years to the process. The question is why didn’t the city moved earlier? Why was it so rush, rush all of a sudden? (We all know it was to save face regardless of the spin from city hall). That doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t have been put where the Glengarry projects are situated. It certainly would have solved two problems.
It is moot anyway because as I have stated, the arena is built and now we have to live with it and the cost.
Chris Edwards,
Congratulations on at least keeping it downtown. Now people must frequent it.