Finally, an Educated Answer to Downtown
It seems that we have finally realized that we don’t need legacy buildings to bring higher education to downtown. That higher education in today’s world isn’t and shouldn’t be about the bricks and mortar, (or more likely concrete and glass) instead of what is taught and created within the walls. When you think about it, don’t some of these grandiose monuments smack of something that Kim Jong Il would build?
Why can’t the 4 theaters at the Palace become a lecture hall during the day and cinema in the evening? In addition to many more storefronts on Pelissier becoming work/live artists studio’s or recording studios.
In London Ontario, they would have never allowed a 400 bldg to be built, they would have ensured existing commercial space was converted. How is the space at so many office blgs good enough for the private sector but inadequate for the public sector? Maybe they need to ease their requirements to match the real world.
Of course this announcement by the University of Windsor and St. Clair College is a great step for Windsor. Not only does it create a cultural center downtown but there are many more repercussions. Where do I start
1. ECONOMIC DIVERSIFICATION. The SXSW festival in Austin Texas shows the future of convergence of Music, Interactive Media and Film. That the Internet wipes away the barriers of creating this art anywhere. Look at the music videos that are being produced locally for an example or Phog’s victory as Canada’s best live music venue.
By nurturing that industry in downtown Windsor we can retain some of the graduates of these programs as contributors to Windsor’s Economy
2. SUSTAINABLE DOWNTOWN - If we can retain these graduates, if we offer Residential tax incentives to create work/live spaces, downtown will finally have a growing residential tax base. What better place for these graduates to live than somewhere that they can focus on their work/art without having to spend time and money on transportation. It will be these graduates that spend their money in the local shops and cafe’s making Downtown thrive other than weekends.
But first we need to look at Windsor’s weakness, Implementing and Executing, we have plenty of plans sitting on shelves collecting dust. Take the sustainable downtown plan off the shelf and complete it with the University and College involvement. We need to ask some direct questions to the College and University as to what resources they need to move forward. What policies can we adopt to leverage the investment that will be made
What about Leasehold improvement grants for existing commercial blds? These are offered in many other Canadian cities. What about Downtown London’s program of targetting one street at a time for revitalization. Pelissier is ripe for this type of attention, we had one consultant name it the street with the best potential in Downtown.
We need to see if leasehold improvements could be covered under stimulus moneys, if not? why? It will take massive funds to renovate these bldgs and if we don’t lend some assistance, they will become ghost towers. (heck, what did the CIBC bldg last sell for? $500,000 or something pathetic like that)
So on to the inevitable characterizations of this new potential cultural district. My first and favorite was given to me by another Mark which was to characterize it as The Left Bank in Paris. I always like and was proud of my work and involvment on the DWBIA districting where Pelissier Village was compared to Greenwich Village with our Arts District adjacent to it. Although the DWBIA settled on “The Avenue” for the north part of Ouellette I always preferred The Ouellette Avenue Experience. Maybe I can get them to have a new vote on that.
Let the fun begin and congratulations to the University and College for their efforts in revitalizing downtown, something that could never have been accomplished without their in depth involvement.
Tags: college, Downtown, revitalization, University
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Mark — awesome ideas — I love the movie theatre idea especially! You’ve hit the nail on the head (have you been reading smartpei.typepad.com ?) regarding education and the false ties to a building instead of the process of learning.
I strongly believe, if pursued, this concept is a winner! Kudos to all involved and Scaledown for keeping up the fight!
While it is not uncommon for movie theatres to be used for presentations, they are not well-suited to be used as lecture halls. There is no side table to place your laptop or notepad for taking notes - though the cup holder does come in handy for you coffee or other beverage.
In Brantford, Laurier and Mohawk College completely gutted the former downtown Odeon theatre to bring it up to modern education and multi-media standards.
I live downtown Toronto and a few years ago AMC built a big 20+ theatre at Yonge & Dundas, which is used by Ryerson University as lecture halls during the day. There is no reason that The Palace can’t be used in the same way. I’m sure The Palace would love some revenue. Windsor needs to stop thinking so locally.
How do we change the implementing and execution? What is the problem? Does anyone know? Is it red tape? Political BS? Inaction by administration? Let’s look at the problem and announce it to everyone. Putting a spotlight on a problem is the first step in solving it.
One word: money.
For example, every single Community Improvement Plan in this City has been a complete and utter sham. The CIP is the first step in a multi-step process. The second step, implementation, requires money (and an approved CIP to spend that money). Yet, how much money has Windsor City Council set aside after each approval of a CIP?
We were getting wheelbarrows of cash from Casino Windsor and the Slots. That money could have been set aside for special projects such as CIPs. Instead it went into general revenue to offset property tax increases.
Brantford used their Charity Casino money to setup a brownfields fund. Windsor just wasted away ‘free’ money.
“In London Ontario, they would have never allowed a 400 bldg to be built”
You mean the same London, Ontario, that allowed the Galleria - an indoor mall - to be built in the middle of downtown? Or a hockey arena?
“When you think about it, don’t some of these grandiose monuments smack of something that Kim Jong Il would build?”
Like the proposed Canal? You do realize that the new Engineering Building is more than just concrete and glass. It’s about providing future students the tools and resources to be able compete in the global market. Sometimes, when done right, the buildings do matter.
The new engineering building is also seeking (or has received? I’ll have to check back on that) LEED accreditation, so I wouldn’t pass it off as just another glass-and-concrete monolith that people like to condescend.
University president Alan Wildeman stressed the exploratory talks were in the very early stages, but that the two schools recently signed a memorandum of understanding pledging enhanced co-operation for the good of their students and the community.
“We’re going to be looking at all sorts of opportunities now, and that, I think, is really important,” said Wildeman.
“We’re really going to take a hard look at all the things that we might do together in partnership for our students and the community around us.”
This is the greatest news I’ve heard in a real long time. To have our priceless institutions of higher learning co-operating and looking at all sorts of opportunities to partner with students and the community around them. The benefits from this are so great that I have a hard time imagining them. Huge kudos to John Strasser, Alan Wildeman and everyone else involved in this; wow, this is fantastic news.
You’ll be seeing lots more of this cooperation between post-secondary institutions in the future, especially between a college and a university. Laurier, Nippissing & Mohawk College already collaborate in Brantford with great success.
These institutions are not just competing with each other, they are competing regionally, nationally and globally. Collaboration is one way of selling yourselves in a competitive global market.
it’s ironic that for almost a hundred years in this city that an education was derided, scorned and basically made fun of, when any fool with no education could make better money standing on the line as an assembler monkey. Now these two institutions are Windsor’s largest employers and their product is a person with an education, that we hope will stay in this city and area and either get a job or create a job(s)
So, as Mark alluded to above how do we build an infrastructure and culture that would give this joint venture a chance at being and producing the educated people we need for our future?
I can remember when St. Clair College first started and was scattered in bulidngs around downtown, chaotic yes, but wonderful to see the students on the streets attending classes. When it came time to build the actual college, I was thoroughly disappointed and upset when it was chosen to build it on the outskirts of Windsor as far away as possible from any coffee shop, let alone a Timmies!
Kudos to the college for at least moving some of the courses downtown but still the college is still a suburb commuter college stuck out in the middle of nowhere and really inconvient to get to..IF you don’t own a car!
And the Palace Theater would make a great permanent location for the International Film Festival!
I was a young teenager in Toronto in the 60’s, with my dad showing his work in the galleries there, I had then an opportunity to participate in the growing art world of Toronto. I did chores in art galleries there when Yorkville exploded on the scene and became a beatnik hang out for all the wanna bees, then Markham Street started to bloom behind Honest Ed’s store, first with the Jack Pollack Gallery then the David Mirvish Gallery, then Queen Street started to come alive as and artist/residence area.
At the same time Soho in New York was fast becoming an artist loft area. Then came the coffee shops and small boutiques and then artsy fartsies wanna bees and the shops got a little bit trendier, then the carriage trade dilscover the noveau area and prices started to climb. Now artists are abandoning or where abandoning New York for Brooklynn. And Soho has a Guggenhiem, a Victoria Secrets and rents that but the rich can afford.
The artist is an unintended consequence, an urban developer, always looking for cheap space for a studio, then other people catch on that this area is a place to hang, to be hip, a hep cat!
Back in the seventies here in Windsor when I was trying to establish myself as an artist and working the line at Ford, I looked at Droulliard Road and the empty storefronts with homes behind them and thought then that this would be a great area to develop into an artist colony and it still is. Narrow roads, a walkable community around it.
Vince, I don’t see the canal as a monument, I see it as an architectural feature, that may possibly lure more residents to the area. I also see a marina being widely supported downtown asset. And yes, sure London has made mistakes 20 and 30 years ago but they’ve acknowledged them and recovered and make fewer mistakes today. We seem to like to insanely do the same thing again and again and expect different results.
I see Grace Hospital as a missed opportunity for the St. Clair Health Campus. What would it have taken other than a couple of years of better timing for that to have become a reality?
I think the Palace theater could have had their seating redone as per the Alamo Drafthouse theater in Austin. Not feasible for the private sector but not a big problem for a public private partnership. (Still a possibility for the Tivoli).
I was wrong to deride the engineering building and I was speaking of all the concrete and glass bldgs that we’ve been building in general. (Police, 400, art gallery, all new university and college campus bldgs).
Hopefully the point will not be lost that the cultural parts of the University and College could better be suited for adaptive reuse of existing downtown buildings.
Mark,
The “I don’t see the canal as a monument, I see it as an architectural feature” comment gave me a chuckle. I needed a good laugh. Time to take those rose-coloured glasses off. If you can’t see that the canal is nothing more than monument, then there is no hope left for you.
I have no problem with a transient marina downtown. It’s a total disappointment that for City with a 5-km long waterfront park that there is no place for boaters to dock for the day. The blame does not lie totally with the City. The Federal Government is not all too helpful with excessive restrictions due to commercial shipping on the Detroit River.
While London may be learning from their mistakes, it is a good thing that the whole ‘downtown mall will revive downtown’ theme of the 70s and 80s missed Windsor. So Windsor did do something right - even if by accident.
The Grace Hospital has been overhyped as a potential site for adaptive reuse. Despite all the provincial money flowing into senior care, the economics did work out for the proposed seniors facility. And it isn’t the original buildings along University that are the problem. It’s the ‘industrial strength’ additions that are the problem.
It can become very expensive to upgrade those kind of buildings to todays standards and needs. Sometimes, its just better to tear it down and building something new.
I do agree that the cultural parts of UofW and St.Clair are better suited for the downtown, especially the area around the Cleary. This is the area where the science centre, municipal archives, community museum, wood carving museum and shanti doll museum should be located.
Vincent, why not throw in a new Central Library and a new community museum and tie them altogether with the library being the hub because of one thing, the library is open more hours than all the above and can act as a meeting place for the new community.
I mentioned the community museum - in fact I would suggest moving the Francois Baby House to inside a new larger combined community museum/science centre. The purists will get upset, but the current location of the Francois Baby house hardly showcases the building.
I could see the Central Library moving there, especially if you are going to have students in the area. Plus it would be closer to the bus terminal.
Ahhh Vince, there may still be hope for me yet. We use the Canal term pretty loosely when it covers far more. The Canal Plan includes a Marina, it includes a ton of infrastructure including streetscape, public art etc. etc.. etc… The canal itself is a water feature that connects our downtown to the riverfront. A connection to a perceived divide. Monument, no, Icon Yes. Game changer- maybe.
“It can become very expensive to upgrade those kind of buildings to todays standards and needs. Sometimes, its just better to tear it down and building something new.”
I agree that it is not cost effective to upgrade some office bldgs, its also why public sector offices should be put in these spaces. Its far easier to secure bank financing for leasehold improvements when your tenant is the government or an educational institution.
How much vacant office space do we have downtown? Thats one area that London got it right, no new office bldgs anywhere but downtown. Also any government space is directed to the downtown. I’d like to see MPAC locate in London outside of its downtown. It simply wouldn’t be allowed. Its also why no new main streets allow office space or banks on their main floor space.
Yes to Adaptive reuse.
Well, I guess Tecumseh wins this battle for recruiting downtown windsors tenants, someone should let them know that the war for the region is being lost.
I’d hate to see them replaced with concrete and glass which I detest much more than even Andrew from International Metropolis hates Stucco.
“You mean the same London, Ontario, that allowed the Galleria - an indoor mall - to be built in the middle of downtown? Or a hockey arena?”
Clearly you haven’t been Downtown in London in some time.
Galleria has repurposed itself to include high density business and educational facilities, including both the University of Western Ontario and Fanshawe College, on its upper floor and which drove new retail to its main floor and has reopened as CitiPlaza and is a wonderful asset to our downtown.
The “hockey arena” was the best thing that could ever have happened to London’s Downtown as it routinely brings 9,100 people to the core for both high level entertainment and sporting events. The John Labatt Centre has been instrumental in increasing the pace of development downtown as well as bolstering our thriving resturaunt community.
I have been in London in some time. I am aware that the Galleria repurposed itself. I’m also aware of the JLC and the Market. I didn’t say or mean to imply that London is not doing things right.
I’ve never been a big fan of comparing one city with another. What works in one city, may not work in another. Also, people that compare and contrast with other cities tend to be selective in their examples. And that was really the point of my comment.
For example, Mark states that “London Ontario, they would have never allowed a 400 bldg to be built”. He is implying that London is doing something right or better than Windsor. But London also built their arena downtown. Mark was not a big proponent of an arena in our downtown. Does that mean that London did something wrong? Selective examples.
I understand that these plans are just preliminary but I have some serious worries about the endeavor.
As of now, the vision of this partnership is to create a: “bohemian hub, with members of the creative class opening “niche shops” and “funky cafes” - as well as lofts and studios. But the most disturbing quote was this one: “Strasser suggested such an immediate influx of student population, with possibly even more expansion down the road, could spur further downtown investment to serve their needs, such as book or music stores, cafes, entertainment venues and restaurants. It could also lead to the creation of a bohemian “New Orleans North” in the core area, he said.”
So the vision is to create an entertainment district for students. How much disposable income and free-time do these people think students have?
This vision betrays a gross misunderstanding of Richard Florida’s Creative Class. Florida defines the class to include scientists, designers, and entrepreneurs. It’s the reason why companies start up in the Boston Research Triangle and the Silicon Valley or in university towns like Waterloo or Ann Arbor.
Yes, we need to invest in our downtown. But, as I once read on a T-shirt, a city built on rock and roll would be structurally unsound.
Vincent you stated that the money from the Casino and other resources was used to offset tax hikes. Do you know why we keep having tax hikes (or it being offset) in this city and why the budget cannot be balacned with the CIPs in mind?
Something has to be causing this city to spend a lot of money annualy.
First off the problem with implementing CIP’s is they use that budget money to start new ones they don’t intend to complete. For the cost of creating 5 we could have fully implemented 1.
Why is our budget high? because we always look at the minor issues and completely ignore the top three issues money is spent on as being untouchable.
I respect our police and fire but you have to question why we do things differently than any other jurisdiction. They seem to be sacred cows that cannot even be discussed. Our firefighters are the only ones in Canada with 48 hour shifts. Other provinces allow auxiliary police to direct traffic in power outages and other road closures. There are many ways that we can find money without having to jeopardize our safety and paying those who put their lives on the line for us what they deserve.
You want to cut our annual spending, start with the top 3-4 expenses and don’t worry about councilor free lunches.
Not only do I like comparing cities, I like cherry picking what I like. Check out Kalamazoo Michigan for a city that lost its primary employer (Pfizer). They streetscaped, wayfinding signage, districting with a banner program, Farmers Market, Recruited a permanent market, Built a new bandstage, residential recruitment, artist incubator, retail incubator. City of only 80,000
http://www.central-city.com
http://www.central-city.net/bizassist for a list of all the development and business recruitment programs
Lisa, the galleria has been transformed into a huge success (especially with university and college involvement), however for a few decades that was not the case.
I think New Orleans North might be a poor choice of words, Don’t you like “The Left Bank” of Paris better. I’ve always stated that its the graduates that we want to get a hold of and the best way to do that is by getting them down here as students.
I’d remind you that Austin was built on music and it is as structurally sound as you can get. Memphis is also faring pretty well.
I’d remind you that Austin was built on being the Capital of Texas and on having the main campus of the University of Texas. The music scene really did not get going until the 60s and 70s.
Fair enough but you can’t dismiss their huge effort to support Local Independant Businesses (Keep Austin Weird) as well as the fact that once they positioned themselves as the Live Music Capital of the World, they outgrew Memphis entertainment scene by a 10 to 1 ratio.
Austin also has sprawl and transportation problems
Technically, I am a proponent of the arena downtown, just not on city center west lands. In a perfect world it should have been built on the site of a demolished Glengary housing project and former barn site. Or at a site west of the city center west