Hybrids need our support
According to Penny Williams, Transit Windsor head-honcho, the issue of increasing Transit Windsor’s budget to support the purchase of 18 hybrid buses is coming before council on Monday.
Read the city’s press release for details. (and all of you laid-off Ford employees - please don’t get put off by the cities use of the phrase “The Way Forward”! I’m pretty sure this release doesn’t come from the desk of Alan Mulally)
We need to let each and every councilor know that increasing our investment in Windsor’s public transit is worth every penny, and buying these hybrid buses is worth the money.
As reported in the Star, Eddie Francis being one of the individuals pushing for this purchase, so there is a high chance that Transit Windsor’s budget will be increased to make the purchase, but we cannot take it for granted. Call you councilor and let them know your feelings.
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I blogged about this a while ago. They shouldn’t stop at just the buses.
They should have city cabs be hybrid or electric. That would cut down a lot on exhaust pollution and save the cab owner money to boot. Each cab license should be worth two if they go electric.
They want Greenlink to save the envoirnment so they should put their money where their mouth is.
Glad to see Eddie reads my blog.
It’s a great move and it need our support. I’m hoping that they’ll change a lot of things as right now public transport isn’t a good option for me unless I want to take 3 buses to work and then need to shower when I get there (which I would consider but that’s not an available option).
this should be just the beginning. If Windsor really wants to turn it’s economy around we should be trying to do everything to make ourselves the greenest city in Canada and lure green tech companies.
All new roadways (EC Row would be perfect) should be made with solar strips in them to generate power. If the black asphalt is just gonna sit there creating heat (energy) it may as well be put to use.
I’ve said for years that all cabs should be electric or, at the very least, hybrids.
The University of Windsor needs to step up to the forefront and develop first class “green” programs. One dedicated to alternative forms of energy, etc.
Windsor needs to implement “Green roof” legislation to help not only beautiful, but make a significant impact on temperatures and pollution in the core.
I hope these buses are just step one of a larger plan…
i could go on and on and on…
It’s about time! As person who uses public transportation as a main means of transport, standing at the bus stop at the west side of Ouellette at Wyandotte and breathing the collected fumes under the canopy of the Herb Grey building can get overwhelming at times, with the buses sitting there idling.
Gord Henderson’s column today (http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/columnists/story.html?id=817bff83-2d86-4d9a-8416-409e112c3ef6talks) about Eddie’s enlightenment to the situation on a visit to the greenest city in North America (disputed with Portland, Oregon!) and tearing up a contract for diesel buses that our Transit Windsor was about to go through. Didn’t anybody at Transit Windsor do any research before starting this contract or look ahead to the growing cost of fuel?
These types of hybrid buses aren’t exactly new and what I find interesting is that there seems that there is no one at city hall, in any of the departments that does research or is doing research into greener technology or demonstrated green ideas and practices of other cities. It seems that we are always reinventing the wheel in this city or are johnny-come-latelys to what the rest of the world is attempting and doing!
As Adriano said above, “I could go on and on and on..!”
So Eddie, when is city hall getting a green roof, along with the 400 hundred building, the new arena and all other public owned buildings!
The city of Ottawa just passed a 20.5 million budget for increasing the bicycle commuting lanes/routes in their city over ten years on what they have already developed, what has Windsor spent? $200,000 over ten years or so!
Oh! And another shot, Mayor Daley also believes that libraries and the arts are central to his idea of a livable city, just not some lame group looking for a free lunch! Send Councillor Gignac to Chicago, to talk to the mayor!
Whats interesting is according to Gord we wouldn’t have hybrids if the trip wasn’t made. Again, doesn’t it seem like our city policies are written on the back of a cocktail napkin?
I mean, did we miss out on a multi million dollar investment in libraries cause someone didn’t take a weekend schmooze?
Is city Center West vacant because someone missed some trip somewhere?
JUst tell me. Who do I send to Portland, Ore to get Windsor some Bike lanes? I’ll foot the bill today on behalf of Scaledown
As Adriano said above, “I could go on and on and on…!”
Not to toot the scaledown horn, but could it be that the SD agenda, along with many others with personal interest, are finally beginning to resound loudly in the ears of the elected officials? In the past, with $40 a barrel oil, plentiful gas, and American dollars flowing as fast as the oil changing the way we do the things that make Windsor — well, Windsor, wasn’t high on the list of electable actions. Now, with the city, quite literally in crisis, council, with Eddie at the helm, is realizing it takes doing something different to really make some changes.
Whatever the case, I’m glad to see some changes getting discussed. Just don’t let the addition of hybrid buses placate the need for real change in the city core. Young, professional families are fleeing Windsor (I’m one of them) because they are afraid that they can’t support their families in the long term. Change the perception and people will stick around and maybe, just maybe, come back.
(No, I’m not coming back — unless I get elected Mayor
)
BTW: Hybrids are good, but compressed air buses are better. Check out http://www.mdi.lu/eng/affiche_eng.php?page=multicats — along with the plans for compressed air cars. Yes, it does displace the consumption of fossil fuels to the power plants, but distributed power generation (of the Green sort) can help offset that problem.
I emailed that link to all the councillors earlier Josh.
Also, if the Mayor’s the one who lead the initiative to get the hybrid buses then he does deserve some credit. If he lead a bike lane strategy, I wonder if some would change their opinion
Marketing the bus from Planetizen and the new found freedom of a bus pass.
Coffee, newspapers, iPhone???
http://www.planetizen.com/node/34026
Not to be a stick in the mud, but I think the efficiency of hybrids should DEFINITELY be studied before the investment is made. I mean, long term efficiency and actual environmental impact, including what happens when the bus full of batteries gets disposed of.
Maybe this money could be invested in the infrastructure to provide all-electric trolley busses along the crosstown 2 route instead? Trolley busses are used in several major cities, including Vancouver.. and once that infrastructure is in place, it is invaluable and scaleable.
Assuming hybrids MUST be the solution, is dangerous.. and I think hybrids popularity might simply be a product of greenwashing.
Mike
In regards to the efficiency of this deal, I found that Chris Schnurr’s analysis in his blog raised some interesting points about hybrids vs. clean diesel.
There’s a somewhat unfair stigma attached to diesel technology with the impression of exhausts coughing out thick noxious diesel fumes, when diesel technology is producing cleaner-burning and more efficient fuel.
It’s all about regulation and standards. I was in China in 2001 as part of an engineering team and I can remember the haze in the air, even out in the villages. A lot of it can be attributed to poor diesel standards. But it doesn’t have to be that way, and the knowledge is there to make it better.
I’m not saying these things because I’m anti-green movement (I’ve been known to bore people to sleep with my discourses on urban farming and green roof technologies) but like Mike, I fear that a lot of this hinges on “greenwashing” (a term I am in love with)
Disagree with both Chris Schnurr and Kdduck again on this one. Their analysis only take into account the gas savings business case. What is absent is the noise pollution.
I have a cafe patio next to a bus stop, buses do not add to that atmosphere. Same for Chatham street grill, beer market and Pause cafe.
The hybrid busses tout themselves to produce 50% less noise. While that is assuredly hype, even in the most skeptical study I found
http://staianoengineering.com/images/NC07_Ross_Staiano_-_A_comparison_of_green_and_conv.pdf
, the amounts were 2 decibals at idle, 3 decibals under 30 MPH and 7 decibals at Wide open Throttle. Listening to Windsor’s older diesel I assume the improvement will be somewhere in the middle.
From 3 to 7 decibals less at a minimum to 50% less decibals at a maximum is worth it if we want to keep our neighborhoods (especially downtown) walkable. Even though I am a huge supporter of transit, it comes at a cost of noise, this mitigates that cost.
Mark I will agree with you on the noise part, that our current bus fleet definitely has room to improve as far as noise goes. I was sitting on the patio of the Beer Market on Friday and had to pause our conversation while the busses rumbled past.
Of course you do Mark. This has nothing to do with Mayor Francis or any council member in particular, but everything to do with proper processes and “having all the information” to make “wise decisions.” Afterall, it was the Mayor who was touting the fuel efficiencies and cost-savings - question is how was this determined in the Windsor infrastructure environment?
As I wrote:
“What study has been conducted to determine which routes could achieve the maximum efficiencies that could be achieved with a hybrid system? Which routes do not?”
I also wrote yesterday:
I’m all for saving money - if it does that. Having hybrid buses on some of our transit routes may make sense, such as on the 1A, 1C and Crosstown 2 where there is, especially at peak times, a lot of stop and go traffic. But if Toronto can only realise a 10% fuel savings - how realistic is it for Windsor to expect the same?
An extensive overhaul of our existing routes to increase ridership and the continued use of clean diesel engines fit with particulate filters as well as examining over-time costs, if any, of Transit Windsor may make better sense to save money and protect the environment.
Because based upon the information I have read, it would make much more sense to use hybrid technology on our garbage and recycling trucks first and invest in particulate filters for our entire transit system.
I’ll put it very simply - due diligence, by all appearances has NOT been conducted. Thank goodness Councillor Dilkens has got the right idea. Let’s see the report how they arrived at their decision and how these buses will be utilized - and whether or not these buses will used efficiently and to their fullest potential.
References to studies in other cities demonstrate that cities took an extensive study to determine which routes first, the number of buses required etc. The cart before the horse.
Transit Windsor has said that this will happen - but only AFTER they purchase the buses.
Surely, as a successful businessperson, you would agree that determining those factors first would be prudent use of taxpayer dollars to ensure maximum return on our investment?
Hey, I’m not questioning the wise decision to perform due diligence, however…
Noise is an intangeable that is difficult to quantify in a cost benefit analysis.
I wonder if Gord even gets that his attempts to lionize the mayor are a large part of what is responsible for polarizing and unifying critics of the mayor.
Its not like I want to be the mayor’s defender. Its more that I want people to stop placing all the blame or credit on this one position and take responsibility for their own actions. Its very difficult to do that when Gord keeps writing the way he does. I think the only power he has is the power we give to him and if residents organized into associations they could achieve virtually every demand they made.
Mayor still can get overrulled by council and residents can easily sway council. Fill those council chambers and a favorable vote is assured. The mayor can only obfuscate and delay but in the end he can’t stop the will of the people. A mayor only has that power if it is given to him willingly by the people