A health campus could cure Core
St Clair College has a proposal before the province for a health campus that would be filled with dental assistants, massage therapists amongst many others. This seems to be a great compliment to the development at the Grace Hospital site. The question I have is how much our Provincial MPP and Cabinet Minister will work towards locating the campus in the core vs. on the campus which is already in her riding. The economic development potential this development could have in our core vs being put on campus is tremendous. A public statement by the Minister about the importance of this development’s location in the core alone would have a tremendous impact.
The question is still whether the community “gets it” about how important locating an educational institution in the core is. This is not simply the latest “fad” in downtown revitalization as was downtown shopping malls, pedestrian malls with their 70% failure rate or other ideas that have come and gone. Location of a Campus in a Downtown has withstood the test of time and the jury is in with a successful verdict.
The key is going to be engaging all the stakeholders before this becomes a contentious topic. Addressing issues and questions such as:
1. Are there any other viable locations other than the City Center West lands?
2. Does the building integrate into the neighborhood?
3. Are the students supportive of the move and what can be done to address their concerns? (Guelph students actually sat at the table and successfully negotiated demands from the business community)
4. Does the community understand that there is a gap between what our vision for an urban village is and what developers are willing to build/people will pay for?
That there has been no formal study of what this gap is and when it is identified it has to be bridged with public funds for something to be built. The only other option that would bridge this gap is the flooding of the cut.
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Mark, can you describe what you mean by flooding the cut?
Mark,
I am glad you have pointed out those questions. I too agree that a campus downtown is a very important piece of the puzzle in changing our downtown for the better. I also agree that the campus should be scouting for numerous sites instead of just the one in the city centre west lands. If it is not feasible to put it anywhere elase (I can’t imagine why but I am not an civil engineer) then it may just have to go there (city centre west lands).
I think it is imperative that the community know about the gap between our local developers (who do everything it seems on the cheap to maximize their profits without regards to quality and appearance) and what the community expects.
As it stands, in order to entice people to live downtown (not just those who are eager to live in the downtown area but those sitting on the fence) developers and the city must offer better amenities that the usual status quo.
Rick,
Mark means the old railway cut beside Caron Ave that joins to the NFL Legacy park at the foot of Caron and the river.
Mark, there are already huge plans outlined for a marina/boat access in the riverside/marentette improvement plan. Would you want to see those plans scrapped in favour of the cut at Caron?
Also, How do you forsee the plan to deliever passenger rail to Windsor (post-walkerville-via-station)??? The cut you want to ‘flood’ is actually a fomer rail bed and can serve as future rail service to the Windsor core! So, If you would rather see this R.O.W. given over to 14′ alum. fishing boats, please then offer how, alternatively, you would see rail service delivered to future windsor citizens, ideally in the core.
I knew you’d be right on this ME and thats good. Instead of “factions” digging in their heels like with the University campus debate. I was hoping that when we brought down Rick Haldenby a discussion would take place but I don’t believe it was received like that. It seemed more of a backup to a position rather than a way to address the concerns of the opposition.
Lets not let that happen again with the College. So far the concerns that have been raised for University Campus is the wishes of students, I don’t even know if those concerns are shared by college students.
The other main concern about a college campus bldg is if it would be in the form of a monolithic structure that would not be the best way for it to integrate into the community.
Again, I think the most important thing is for Sandra Pupatello to enter the Debate. She should make clear from the start if she is also restricted to talking about this issue. Maybe she can’t comment on the bldg but maybe she can comment on its location and design. Who knows until she weighs in?
We need to put an end to the criticism “Windsor never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity”
Lets engage in a thoughtful debate where we recognize that there’s nothing wrong with everyone putting their self interest first. That success lies in aligning those self interests to the common interest of Windsor
I’m assuming those interests lie in
The college wants a first rate Highly visible facility that will draw the best and the brightest
The Downtown Businesses want residents and visitors and development
The Downtown Residents want a clean, safe, neighborhood with amenities.
I guess I’m an optimist but I don’t see those goals mutually exclusive.
I agree with you Mark that those goals do nto have to be mutually exclusive. I hope that if there is a discussion it involves everyone and not just the college and the city.
Sporto,
That rail cut will never be rail again. CP has been taking OUT track, not putting new lines into their services. Where would the train station be situated? and how would a person get access?
Also note that it is against the ideas of Windsor’s intermodal hub to be built at the airport. That is where the new train station (tracks already there) is/was to be built.
With all of this against the existing rail cut I just don’t see it happening. Not that it couldn’t but I don’t think CP and the city will allow another train service to cut through another neighbourhood. Time and money are the biggest factors against this idea. I don’ think it will ever be flooded either due to costs and expropriation of land.
The best idea would be a nice parkland with a winding trail for joggers, bikers and walkers with flowering trees, shrubs and plants similar to http://www.gatewaypublicpark.com but on a smaller scale.
Sporto is right on. Giving up that ROW is one of the dumbest ideas I’ve ever heard, the second dumbest is a tie between moving the rail station to the airport, and flodding that cut.
WTF? I’m not an engineer, but it seems plainly obvious to me that since the cut isn’t currently filled with water, it must be above the water level of the river.
That would leave two options to fill it up…
1. Dig down so that it is lower than it currently is, allowing the water to fill in naturally, but that would destroy the continuity of the riverfront park that everyone worked so hard, for so long to complete. Also that would mean that you would be sailing down a body of water with 20 or 30 foot banks. You would see nothing, and if you moored you boat anywhere along it, you would need an escalator to reach the road level.
OR
2. You cap off each end and fill it with water, like a giant bathtub. Then you can sail back and forth without being able to go anywhere.
Either option chosen still makes this one of the dumbest ideas I’ve ever heard. And as you know, living in Windsor, you hear plenty of dumb things.
ME, just because CP is in the habit of dleting track these days doesnt make it right. And, just because there happens to be tracks by the airport(which came first?) does not mean that the airport is the natural place to put your new VIA station. Plus, air travel does not have such a bright future it seems….
I’m not a gov’t fat cat nor have I sat in high level rail meetings, but, when I look to other cites of consequence in north america their passenger rail station is in the core if the city, where the action is.
As it stands I believe the plan is to put the new VIA on the city-owned lands near crawford/tecumseh. I think theres a cheese factory, bowling alley and proposed incineration site there - not what I call a hub of activity and a Gateway to the city of Windsor.
ME- what would you have done with the the huge parking lot on Caron that borders the abandoned rail bed?? That’s where I can picture a new VIA station. Caron and University is only metres from a huge rail yard to the south - also basically in the center of the city. Is this an opportunity that we dont want to miss? (Mark?)
I think would should first re-establish a sustainable transportation infrustructure/passenger rail in Windsor before messing it up with some pretty fish ponds.
The lot on Caron is currently used for St. Clair College parking. What I would do is build condos on the site!
I agree with you about the intermodal hub and what a silly idea it is but that is the vision of Eddie Francis and city hall.
I can’t see having a railway station on that site either as Andrew indicated; The banks are much too high. Where would that train station sit? I don’t see any issue with where it is today except the terminal is horrible. What about at the other end of Caron Ave (south) where the trucking firm has a huge gravel lot? It is close to Wyandotte and close to downtown. Plus you have the huge train yard right there.
I haven’t heard the plans for the VIA rail to go at Crawford/Tec. though there used to be one there before. I too think that is a dumb spot as well.
While flooding the cut would be nice, it is not looking ahead. The railcut at Caron Ave. is the perfect location for a new VIA Rail station adn hopefully also a future Light Rail station. Just because the banks are too high doesn’t mean a train station can’t go there. “Uh oh, banks are too high. I’m going to throw my hands in the air and give up.” Most well designed train stations I’ve ever been to usually make you walk “downstairs” to take the trains. A new station at Caron Ave. would be great for not only our downtown core, but the city. Looking from a visitors standpoint, why would you come to Windsor by train (and in my opinion trains WILL be the future mode of transportation for longer distances, not airplanes) when you are left nowhere near any hotels or amenities? Then you have to get a cab just to get anywhere. I’ve said it many times in this blog, it is all about convenience. People will come, to live and to visit, if everything is easy and convenient for them.
Also, once a new doublestack rail tunnel is built to the USA, a VIA link from our core to the USA would open up so many more opportunities.
ME, the VIA station is on the move… I dont agree with the reasoning, however. … http://www.alanhalberstadt.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9112&Itemid=87
The area where the former rail station wouldn’t be too bad of a spot either…Theres also a huge truck/trailer hub facility on college! It’s adjascent to the rail tunnnel line along wellington….
And like Adriano says.. there needs to be consideration for the potential border crossing too…. The rail tunnel can be found at University and Cameron maybe something can be don there?
ME -
How would people get access is quite simple.
Go to Ottawa and have a look at how they designed their below grade transit lanes. They use stairs and elevators.
Rail corridors need to be preserved for future use. I can point to dozens of examples of long-term thinking municipalities across North America that are doing just that.
Once rail corridors are gone - they are gone forever.
Flooding the cut, as nice of an idea as it sounds, is not a practical nor sustainable use of our limited financial resources. Bank stabilization, water management as well ecological impacts of drainage into the Detroit River are factors that would have to be mitigated - and at quite the cost.
If, for whatever reason a light rail system is not financially feasible, than mass transit lanes could be constructed in conjunction with the use of fuel cell buses.
This would feed nicely into the urban village and offer increased mobility for its residents - and below grade.
Lees Avenue in Ottawa is an example of what is possible - highrise complexes built around the transit lanes which connect to all the suburbs. You can go from the market to Nepean in 20 minutes via the express bus lanes.
The bus only lanes also serve as emergency vehicle access routes - cutting down response times to emergencies.
Here’s a link to IM and the MCR station. http://www.internationalmetropolis.com/?p=87
Whether something like this could be located on Caron to serve either VIA or lightrail or both, it is a shame that this buildiong was destroyed by neglect… not that long ago…Every Urban Village needs a train station!! Who knows, maybe in time, even that stupid quonset hut excuse of a bus depot will be obsolete and can cut down for recycle.
I hope the folks at Transit Windsor have a plan for how they will continue to serve the public with escalating gas prices. I bet they wish they had their old SW&A rail network still in place…
I wish it was still in place…
Downtown tunnel option wins vote 9-1 in first step to ‘getting transit right’
From Ottawa:
Committee OKs $4B mass-transit plan
Downtown tunnel option wins vote 9-1 in first step to ‘getting transit right’
Jake Rupert, The Ottawa Citizen
Published: Thursday, May 22, 2008
The municipality’s preferred $4-billion mass-transit system passed its first major hurdle last night when it was endorsed by the city’s transportation committee on a vote of nine to one.
It will now go to a full city council vote next week, where it is expected to pass by a healthy margin. In the fall, council is scheduled to decide in what order to build the system, and final approval of the entire transit system and strategy is slated for next spring….
…If approved and built, the new system would see light rail from Blair Road downtown on the current bus transitway, through a subway across downtown and west to Baseline Road on the western transitway. Another light-rail line would run from LeBreton Flats to Bowesville Road. Bus transitways would connect Orléans, Kanata and Barrhaven to the light-rail system.
Under the current approach, the system and some improved inner-city transit routes would be the main public transportation network until 2031, and the suburban busways would be converted to light-rail after that. However, the entire system could be converted to light rail sooner, depending on the demand and funding.”
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/features/gettingthere/story.html?id=5e1bd61b-2838-4a9e-8027-9943cb7c7bc8
I to bet like Andrew, that the old lines were still in place and with Chris Schnurr and not reusing the rail lines that are in place now for some other future use.
Imagine having your teeth cleaned for free or a small fee from an in training dental assistant, or a massage, or having an architectural or landscaping technicians students working on your house plans or facades for a small fee, this is only some of the future services of having a centrally located college could provide the citizens of the city. Or the university’s School of Visual Arts working with Parks and Recreation on park design and art for those parks.
The School of Visual Arts is in the line of fire in any future bridge/Huron Church Road development, so might be worth consideration to assist them to move downtown, possibly near the Art Gallery of Windsor.
Be sure to listen to yesterday’s episode of ScaleDown Radio, as we had the illustrious Andrew Foot of International Metropolis on the program, via the phone lines, so he could lay into Mark about this whole-flooding-the-cut issue.
Click Here
The boys were well behaved, though. I’ll get their fur flying one of these days!
Wait ’till we discuss synthetic stucco!
The feds are already talking wit the City of Hamilton on Light rail .. http://www.raisethehammer.org/blog.asp?id=1012 I always thought that, generally, Windsor isn’t more than half a step behind Hamilton, industry, population -wise, etc…
The other thing I like about Hamilton - they have a Transit Users Group (TUG) …something we are lacking here in Windsor.
Can you imagine one of our Windsor Councilors meeting with a Fed to explore Light rail opportunities with all the Gas-tax revenue available to Windsor?
Thank God for people like Chris, James and Mark, who are not afraid to take risks in order to make Windsor a better place. You guys make me glad I’m from Windsor.
Aww shucks, George. We really couldn’t do it without you guys and gals, you know?